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Nevaron
Sergeant
View S7 Profile
87 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2010 : 16:58:06
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Hmm, maybe I should poke my nose in on some of the designs I'm less likely to use (I've mostly been looking for lvl 1 designs for my 3025 game). I have resisted the urge to comment on mis-labeled designs as I haven't tried posting myself and can't comment on the proper way to fix it (refering to tech type, lots of things seem to be labeled Introductory that are full of the latest tech). In any case, the point is well made, and it never hurts to have a reminder... the internet is for the most part a "faceless" area and some folks might vent their spleens a bit more adamantly than if they were face to face with someone.
"The problem with overwhelming firepower is that you also want me to rebuild everything you atomize!" -- unknown Tech |
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Warhawk
Major
3080 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 17:07:12
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Nevaron that's actually a site issue rather than a 'Mech issue. When those new statuses came out they didn't apply correctly to older designs.
The beatings will continue until MY morale improves.
Knowledge brings fear.
- Mars U.
If guns kill people, then you can blame your pencil for misspelled words.
- Larry the Cable Guy
Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun
Satire is when you make fun of people who are smarter than you.
Irony is when you make fun of people who are richer than you.
Burlesque is when you make fun of people who are smarter and richer than you while taking off your clothes.
- Heard on NPR
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Samak
Lieutenant
View S7 Profile
United States
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 17:34:03
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Nevaron, feel free to review any of mine and let me know what you think i have crappy designs I thought were good, good designs I thought were crappy, a couple that just made some people say "cool". Add your two cents I'm always happy to read opinions, Blessed Blake knows I have enough of my own.
Peace through Superior Firepower
Beware of stupid people in large groups
Man only need two tools, WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40, if it does move and it shouldn't use the Duct Tape-Author Unknown, internet wisdom |
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Knightmare
Premier Member
View S7 Profile
United Kingdom
4459 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 19:00:45
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There's always a fine line between constructive criticism and and being a jerk.
I guess the trick is just remembering that this is supposed to be fun. Fun for you and fun for the person posting the design. Remembering that not everyone finds "fun" the same way or in the same things you do. Everyone's hobby is a little different and personal. Keep that little gem in the back of your noodle and with a healthy dose of common courtesy we'll have a super conductive, thriving generator of uber awesome creativity. (How's that for adjective use!) 
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Nevaron
Sergeant
View S7 Profile
87 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 20:37:04
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Ah, thanks Warhawk... there were always a few mislabeled, but I'd begun to think that there were a handful slamming them out w/o thinking. Pardon if I get annoyed at that, mostly its just the week I'm having... which, of course, I should not take out on you fine folks. Oh, and Samak, I can forgive any design from you for the simple act of plastering the WD-40/Duct tape thing on your sig, I seem to be the only one in my area who hadn't heard that :P
Yes Knightmare, impressive use of Adjectives :) And here's to dancing that line successfully for all of us.
"The problem with overwhelming firepower is that you also want me to rebuild everything you atomize!" -- unknown Tech |
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Einherjar
Lieutenant
View S7 Profile
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 21:19:39
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I wonder if the lack of reviews by some of the old dogs happens to be from a lack of available time online? In my case, my life has gotten a lot more busy in the last year, and I've had little time to spend online. When I come to S7, I mostly browse the forums, and for the most part, completely ignore the New Additions. Its not exactly the way I'd LIKE things to be, but, its the way it is. I of course don't know if that's the case with everyone, but I wonder.
At any rate, as Knightmare would say, there's my pence.
"Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't coming back. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me" - Firefly
Cry Havoc and let slip the 'Mechs of war! |
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MechRat
Lieutenant
View S7 Profile
United States
303 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 05:36:00
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While I certainly wouldn't consider myself an "Oldtimer", I have been a member for the past four years and was posting reviews back then. I haven't the time available lately that I wish I did (much like Ein), so my involvement has been mainly reading and occasionally posting in the forums. I have always been a believer of constructive - and not destructive - criticism, as that information can be used to improve your own work. I value S7 as a place to share and discuss all things BattleTech, free from the idiocy, hostility, and general bad attitudes that can invade sites like this. Let's keep up the good work!
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"If someone tells you it's impossible, it's because they want to beat you to it and be the first."
(Rule #8, Buck Savage's Survival Guide)
"Beware the quiet ones, for you know not what they think." - me |
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Vidar
Lieutenant
View S7 Profile
United States
502 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 08:20:30
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I think that we each have some sacred cows that we love, no XL on assaults, fast lights, Panthers and Dragons. The changes to these sacred cows get our dander up and we forget our manners. So as long as we can try to remember that everyone need to learn and try to help them we should be all right. However the designer is also expected to listen, and 10% of barrel will always be rotten.
Epsilon Team, by your shield or on it |
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LostInSpace
Premier Member
View S7 Profile
United States
1667 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 09:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Vidar
However the designer is also expected to listen,
One thing I've learned over my time here: I never expect the designer to listen, especially considering the actual design. If I'm so pissed off that someone did something in a "bad" way, I'll go and create a variant (have yet to reach that point). Offering suggestions in a helpful and courteous manner is one thing, expecting someone to change based on those suggestions is entirely something else. They'll change if they want to, and should never be expected to.
If half the people out there were expected to listen to suggestions, most of the 'Mechs would have been redesigned down to a few basic chassis that everyone uses, and we wouldn't be bothering with construction rules because all the machines look the same anyway.
Every 'Mech design is valid in some sense or in some tactical situation. There are no "absolute no-no's", sacred cows do not exist.
</opinion piece>
EDIT: Oh wait, I guess this is my "sacred cow"...
"Uh.,.. this was made by Clan Hot Dog for te uberness" - Major Tom
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Edited by - LostInSpace on 07/30/2010 09:43:28 |
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Ice Hellion
Premier Member
France
4606 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 10:19:24
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@Knightmare: giving a score is a difficult task, I was never able to make a difference between 4 and 5 or 1 and 2 (3 is rather easy) but I know it might be important for some people so I prefer not to rate the designs (at least most of them).
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Knightmare
Premier Member
View S7 Profile
United Kingdom
4459 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 13:16:42
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I hear ya Ice. I'm just saying that sometimes it's easier than writing a long comment to a design you like a simple 4 or 5 with a "Good Work" will suffice.
But I second Lost.
A designer shouldn't and doesn't have to listen to one bloody thing. It's their hobby, they'll play it as they see fit. Plus, it's important to bear in mind that for some players the actual GAME of BattleTech means very little. It's the fictional UNIVERSE they get their kicks from. (I fall into the later category.)
For me, building a new design with or without an XL engine comes down to how I interpret the story, not how it plays on the table top. So "suggested" or demanding one type of engine over another is worthless to someone like me. Sure I'll listen, but it literally goes through one ear and out the other. It's not that I don't respect what you're saying, it's just that my hobby and therefore my primary source of enjoyment is dictated by a different part of the game system than say yours.
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Donteras
Sergeant
View S7 Profile
United States
210 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2010 : 13:12:18
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I honestly don't think Kit hit the nail on the head with his armory. Everything he did with that armory was mean-spirited and I don't think the community was in the least improved by his revolt.
I do like that this subject is being discussed, however. I personally don't feel it is really a big deal, however. I have felt the pinch of what I thought were bad reviews, tho, and I admit to reacting badly to them. Personally, I've always written my reviews as suggestions or mere idea exchange. I've always felt that the designer has the right to ignore what I type anyway. It's when it gets more important than that that trouble usually happens.
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A day without fusion is like a day without sunshine.
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Ice Hellion
Premier Member
France
4606 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 10:25:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Donteras
I've always felt that the designer has the right to ignore what I type anyway.
You are right.
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LostInSpace
Premier Member
View S7 Profile
United States
1667 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 14:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Donteras
I honestly don't think Kit hit the nail on the head with his armory. Everything he did with that armory was mean-spirited and I don't think the community was in the least improved by his revolt.
In my mind, what Kit was trying to get across is that the stats aren't really that important, or historically haven't been that important, here at S7. Since I've been here the order of the day has been fluff, fluff, and more fluff. Even just a paragraph detailing why you designed it a certain way was enough. But what Kit encountered when he started posting again was people ignoring fluff and simply focusing on the numbers, saying how and why things should be done, ignoring the fact that maybe he had a reason to do things one way instead of another. Fluff got ignored.
And that seems to be what S7 has always been about: creative writing. For a time there it seemed the site was moving away from that solid base, now it feels more on-track.
But I also realize the fluff mentality can be pretty intimidating. First time I posted a design I was scared ****less that it wouldn't fit the bill. I lurked for a while and figured out what people were doing and why. Other people have jumped in running with good success.
Anyway, I guess I (and others) get a little pissed off when I've (we've) obviously spent quite a bit of time writing half a novel up above, and someone is nit-picking my (our) choice of systems or ammo in a review (ammo, I might add, is purely for the pilot to decide on before the battle). And yeah, exchanging ideas is a good thing, but I have rarely encountered reviews like that; instead we get stuff like "you should do this instead".
There are exceptions; people like Recoil, who ONLY wants thoughts on how the thing will do on the battlefield, and not cries for MOAR FLUFF! They get what they want: "here's why it doesn't work, here's what looks good, decent job on the numbers."
But, quite frankly, looking at numbers all day is BOOOOOORING. Entertain me! I'll try to do the same!
"Uh.,.. this was made by Clan Hot Dog for te uberness" - Major Tom
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Samak
Lieutenant
View S7 Profile
United States
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:14:09
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In going with what LiS is saying, there does seem to be a number of posters who are only after all powerful death machines and are unhappy when someone asks "well, why to the Cappies have a light with 4 gauss and how did they do it?" Major Tom's quote come's to mind. If we all built only gausszzillas or pulse laser boats it would be boring, and without fluff its actually just a math problem
Peace through Superior Firepower
Beware of stupid people in large groups
Man only need two tools, WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40, if it does move and it shouldn't use the Duct Tape-Author Unknown, internet wisdom |
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A trend?
