Protomechs!

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  • Last Post 16 September 2019
Prince posted this 20 January 2018

Man, ultraheavy protos are complete BS. Allow me to show you why!

Svartalfa 3 Superheavy Protomech 
Mass: 15 Tons
Chassis: Glider
Power Plant: 105 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 6 kph
Maximum Speed: 9 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Jet Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown


The Svartalfa 3 is the product of Clan Hell's Horses salvaging and taking back several Sprite protomechs, mainly the Sprite 1 and 2.
The Sprite 2 is fantasticly powerful, but the Hell's Horses knew that such a tainted design would not show well with the clan. The Svartalfa
Came from this problem- origionally, it was merely a Sprite that was visually redesigned.

The Svartalfa 3 took the longest to design, simply because of balancing problems witth flight and the weight of the gun. Hells horses
wanted a glider not only because tthey could use the same chassis- it also made tactical sense, as it allowed fire from all angles without
worry aboutt intervening terrain as well as impressive speed. Notably, it uses a larger engine and very specific armor loads- it can still
fly after some successful hits from flak, and its armor is made to take specific hits from HAG20s which are becoming commonplace.


Type: Svartalfa 3 (Glider)
Technology Base: Clan (Wars of Reaving)
Tonnage: 15
Battle Value: Incomplete

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 1500 KG
Engine: 105 3500 KG
Walking MP: 1
Running MP: 0
WiGE Cruise MP: 6
WiGE Flank MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 12 3000 KG
Cockpit: 750 KG
Armor Factor: 45 2250 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 4 5
Torso 15 15
R/L Arm 4/4 5/5
Legs 8 10
Main Gun 2 5


All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
ER Large Laser(1) MG 4000

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Prince posted this 20 January 2018

Minotaur P3 Assualt Protomech 
Mass: 9 Tons
Chassis: Bipedal
Power Plant: 55 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 4 kph
Maximum Speed: 6 kph
Jump Jets: Standard Jump Jets
Jump Jet Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Standard Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown


Built to replace the P2, and considered by pilots to be better than the origional. While the P3 makes some comprimises- largely splitting
the SRM4 into twin-packs where the Improved smalls existed- the use of a single ER medium laser improved range massively. Even better, the
engine was replaced for a larger model with an additional jump pack, allowing the P3 Minotaur the ability to keep up with heavy battlemechs
and scale small buildings.



Type: Minotaur P3 Standard Jump Jets
Technology Base: Clan Advanced
Tonnage: 9
Battle Value: Incomplete

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 900 KG
Engine: 55 1500 KG
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 5 1250 KG
Cockpit: 500 KG
Armor Factor: 41 1900 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 2 5
Torso 9 15
R/L Arm 2/2 4/4
Legs 5 10
Main Gun 1 3


All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
ER Medium Laser T1 1000
Magnetic Clamps T2 500
SRM 2 RA 500
SRM 1ammo (8) T 80
SRM 2 RA 500
SRM 1ammo (7) T 70

icehellion posted this 21 January 2018

Man, ultraheavy protos are complete BS. Allow me to show you why!

 

Could you elaborate a little more?

Prince posted this 21 January 2018

Sure!

  • Superheavy Protomechs can replace many canon light 'mechs in the 20-25 ton range.

Outside of extreme speed cases like the Firemoth, the calculations for protomech builds favor heavier weights- and ultraheavies made this even worse. Both the Commando and Locust can be reproduced as protomechs and only "loose" in the sense they have to use chemical lasers instead of broken clan ER.

  • Canonically, ultraheavy protomechs can use any failed warrior.

Ultraheavies use a larger system of control that the Wars of Reaving book directly states can be used by mechwarriors and even smaller elementals- without those artificial height limits imposed a clan can use cast-off warriors from other failed areas and shuffle them into protomechs instead of being forced to use aerotype pilots.

  • Ultraheavy protos have "more" armor than contemporary lights, thanks to near miss rules.

With all 3s and 11s hitting nothing (outside of gliders, which ill get to) and since the torso concentrates all armor in one location, an ultraheavy protomech can take more damage than many common lights.

  • Quad protos and gliders game the movement system.

From the "Wars of Reaving", page 207:

Quadruped and
Glider ProtoMechs receive an efficiency bonus due to their
unique designs, enabling them to get more MPs out of a
given Engine Rating. To reflect this, subtract 2 from the desired Running/WiGE Flank MPs for ProtoMech Quads and
Glider ProtoMechs. (Glider ProtoMechs must also receive
a minimum WiGE Flank MP of 4; ProtoQuads must have a
minimum Running MP of 3.)

  • Gliders- while glass cannons- are balls-out hard to hit.

Gliders are treated as jumping 'mechs when being shot at, and have an additional +1 to-hit at cruise MP and +2 when using flank.

  • The Boggart 2.

A canon design, the 2 runs 5/8/7, can tank a gauss rifle to its torso and legs, and carries a single Clan Medium pulse laser in it's turret. If you can't find a use for that I have no faith in you.

Prince posted this 21 January 2018

Commando II-P Superheavy Protomech 
Mass: 15 Tons
Chassis: Bipedal
Power Plant: 135 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 6 kph
Maximum Speed: 9 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Jet Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown






Type: Commando II-P None
Technology Base: Clan (Wars of Reaving)
Tonnage: 15
Battle Value: Incomplete

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 1500 KG
Engine: 135 4500 KG
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 0 KG
Cockpit: 750 KG
Armor Factor: 64 3200 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 4 6
Torso 15 30
R/L Arm 4/4 6/6
Legs 8 16


All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
SRM 4 LA 1000
SRM 1ammo (11) LA 440
Medium Chemical Laser(1) RA 1000
Medium Chemical Laserammo(15) RA 500
SRM 6 T 1500
SRM 1ammo (10) T 600

Prince posted this 21 January 2018

Locust II-P Superheavy Protomech 
Mass: 14 Tons
Chassis: Bipedal
Power Plant: 170 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 8 kph
Maximum Speed: 12 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Jet Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown






Type: Locust II-P None
Technology Base: Clan (Wars of Reaving)
Tonnage: 14
Battle Value: Incomplete

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 1400 KG
Engine: 170 6000 KG
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Heat Sinks: 0 KG
Cockpit: 750 KG
Armor Factor: 64 3200 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 4 9
Torso 14 27
R/L Arm 4/4 6/6
Legs 8 16


All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Machine Gun(1) LA 250
Machine Gunammo (25) LA 125
Machine Gun(1) RA 250
Machine Gunammo (25) RA 125
Medium Chemical Laser(1) T 1000
Medium Chemical Laserammo (27) T 900

Thunder posted this 25 January 2018

Gliders use WiGE movement rules.  Thus they get +1 TMM for being in the air,  but can also be engaged by Flak attacks.  Other things apply like they have to move at least 4 hexes per turn or else land IIRC

Where are you getting the code to post these units?

 

 

magermh posted this 05 September 2019

New tech new problems.

Prince posted this 12 September 2019

Yeah, after Greekfire did an article on the Svartalfa, my opinion on gliders has changed. It's not that WiGE movement is poor- but it definitely has it's niche uses, and the Base Svart just isn't fast enough to make proper use of it. This one I think is just fast enough, but that's just because of the range it can play with.

 

 

Prince posted this 16 September 2019

I've been trying to build a sort of near-perfect "generalist" protomech for a society-like force to some success; one of the major caveats being that unless it has a high movement speed it has to use Mag Clamps to be ferried.

Mag clamps for protos are awesome, but personally the greatest reason is because they change the meta. Before, protomechs got better the heavier they were, since engine weights work on a bell curve and several of the smaller fusion plants don't increase in weight at all- further hurt by the fact that proto's could not function like battle armor and sacrifice speed to be transported via omni. But with mag clamps, that goes out the window entirely- a proto can be a heavy gun carrier more terrifying than a battlesuit and move into buildings with impunity at far better speeds and armor levels. Some now say that proto's are near perfect vehicle counters, and I think I agree.

But there's another great thing- mag clamps suddenly give smaller proto's reason to exist despite the awesome potential of ultraheavies, as they fall under the "carried loads" rules- if your proto using the clamps weighs 10% of a carrier 'mech it still moves full speed, and is considered to weigh 3 tons LESS if the carrier is an omni- so a 8 ton proto with clamps being carried like a baby by an omni is considered 5 tons, making things like Stormcrow's just as fast.

So here's what I came up with. 4/6/3 saves ~200KG over 3/5/5 while still keeping *some* ground speed (could save another 500KG by going 3/5/3, but that seems too little) and another ~700KG over being 7 tons. The 8 ton range also allows us to hit some awesome targets for armor distribution- it's no mean feat to have one tank a cERPPC to the chest without internal damage, though I wonder if it would be better to move 2 points of armor from the head to the arms so they can't be clipped by medium lasers.

All variants are self-explanatory, through the Jump-pack version is a production variant and I'm not happy with it. Sure, it moves like 4/6/7 which is cool, but it really needs more accuracy- but with only 1350KG left for guns there's not a lot I can use. The LRM variant is also hobbled a bit by my own need to have it mount those Mag Clamps- 500KG would go a LONG way to bumping up to an LRM 11 to game the cluster table for a similar amount of ammo like the almighty Gorgon. Alt. D could also be mildly improved by using an SRM 1 instead of the LMG for alternate ammo, but it would really be loosing 50% of your ammo for infernos.

It still needs a little tweaking, but I think it's real close to being a near 5/5 proto. Any opinions?

Prince posted this 16 September 2019

Eos General Combat Protomech
Mass: 8 Tons
Chassis: Bipedal
Power Plant: 50 Modular Consolidated Fusion Pile
Cruising Speed: 42 kph
Maximum Speed: 64 kph
Jump Jets: Standard Jump Jets
Jump Jet Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Standard Composite Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: The Reclaimers/The Titans, unknown Advanced Pirate Faction
Primary Factory: Unknown, possible Asteroid or Warship-based manufacturing
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown






Type: Eos Generalist Protomech
Technology Base: Clan (Tech Manual)
Tonnage: 8
Battle Value: Incomplete

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 800 KG
Engine: 50 1500 KG
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 3
Jump Jets: 300 KG
Heat Sinks: 0 000 KG
Cockpit: 500 KG
Armor Factor: 37 1850 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 2 3
Torso 8 15
R/L Arm 2/2 3/3
Legs 5 10
Main Gun 1 3

3,050KG total

Prime Configuration:
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Medium Chemical Laser(1) MG 1000
Medium Chemical Laserammo (15) MG 510
Protomech magnetic Clamps T 500
SRM 3 T 750
SRM 3ammo (9 rouds, 27 missiles) T 270

20KG left over

Alternate Configuration A
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Medium Chemical Lasers(2) MG 2000
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo (16) T 544

6KG left over

Alternate Configuration B
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Light TAG MG 500
Nova CEWS T 1500
2 Heat Sinks T 500
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500

50KG left over

Alternate Configuration C
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
LRM 9 MG 1,800
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
LRM Ammo (9 rounds- 729 missiles) T 729

21KG left over

Alternate Configuration D
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Clan ER Medium Laser MG 1000
5 Heat Sinks T 1250
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
Light Machine Gun MG 250
Ammo Light Machine Gun (10 Rounds) T 50


Alternate Configuration E
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
SRM 4 MG 1000
SRM 4 T 1000
Ammo SRM 4 (13 rounds- 52 missiles) T 520

Alternate Configuration F
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
4 AP Gauss Rifles MG 2000
Ammo AP gauss (22 rounds) T 550

Custom 'Jump Pack' Configuration
All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
+1 Jump Jet T 100
Protomech Partial Wing System T 1600
SRM 4 MG 1000
Ammo SRM 4 (8 rounds-

1350


Prince posted this 16 September 2019

Let's continue the idea with an *actual* Society protomech- or sorta Society protomech- the Basilisk biped. Remember that spiel about Mag clamps and weight, and 7 tons and all? If we do a 7 ton proto a 40 ton omni can carry one no problem- and oh look the Society uses Vipers and Ice Ferrets above a roll of 11, where everything is an omni! How about that!

The Society has bipedal Basilisks for their use, but let's crank up the cheese since we're using mag clamps and don't worry about speed except for tactical situations. The weight tables for proto engines basically *end* below the 40 point fusion mark, requiring you to multiply the rate of the engine by 25 KG. By using a 7 tonner at 3/5 movement, we use a 35-point engine but because of that rule, save 125KG out of the gate instead of having to pay 1 full ton for it. We also resist the urge to go down further to 2/3/2- saving 450KG just isn't worth it in my opinion but your mileage may vary.

We keep jump jets- 300kg is nothing for the benefit- and start slapping armor on this bastard to meet the base targets. With it able to tank a stray gauss hit to the chest and an AC/20 unable to core one with an arm hit, it'll stick around for quite some time to provide some real cheese.

Gaming the cluster table, we equip an LRM 11 (LRM missiles are 8.33Kg each, not 9 like I thought so I'll redo the earlier proto) and a whole 10 rounds of fire. Forget any other gun, save the leftover 8KG for snacks and after-combat treats. I haven't done the calculations yet, but I know for a fact that this proto now has a BV to LRM ratio similar to the Bane 3- you know, the one that can throw over 100 LRMs a turn?- but far cheaper in bulk and more accessible and mobile. If your RAT gives you a Viper (which is dead average for a roll) you carry one at 8/12; go drop him in a corner somewhere and let him go wild. With 3/5/3 he can still move to better spots, and with his armor he's able to take some hits. This isn't the greatest proto i've made, but for what he is I don't see much of a way to improve him- except NOT using it on it's factory world of Homer, where the gravity is 1.4g and it goes 2/3/2.

Prince posted this 16 September 2019

Basilisk 3 Society Biped Heavy Protomech 
Mass: 7 Tons
Chassis: Bipedal Standard
Power Plant: 35 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Standard Jump Jets
Jump Jet Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Standard Proto armor
Armament:
Manufacturer: Complex H-6 CCC Contraband
Primary Factory: Homer, Clan Cloud Cobra Complex H-6
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown






Type: Basilisk 3 Society Biped Standard Jump Jets
Technology Base: Clan (Tech Manual)
Tonnage: 7
Battle Value: 289

Equipment: Mass
Internal Structure: 700 KG
Engine: 35 875 KG
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 0 0 KG
Cockpit: 500 KG
Armor Factor: 30 1500 KG
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 2 2
Torso 7 10
R/L Arm 2/2 4/4
Legs 4 7
Main Gun 1 3


All Weapons and Ammo Location Mass(KG)
LRM 11 MG 2200
Protomech Magnetic Clamps T 500
10 Rounds LRM 11 Ammo (110 missiles) T 917

8KG left over for beer and snacks.

Defensive BV:
armor factor: 30 x 2.5= 75
Internals: 18 x 1.5= 27
Gyro: 0
MagClamp: 1

103 x (0.1 + 1.2) = DBR of 133.9

Offensive BV:
LRM 11: 139
Ammo: 917/1000= 0.917 x 18= 16.5
Speed factor of 1

155.5 x 1= OBR of 155.5

Total BV of 289

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